[11|14:07] <_sj_> welcome back! [11|14:08] <_sj_> for the next half an hour or so, [11|14:08] <_sj_> ethan's going to be a bastard about time. [11|14:08] <_sj_> for anyone who's got a tool, technology, etc [11|14:08] <_sj_> you have 2, 2.5 minutes to present that tool. [11|14:08] <_sj_> at the end of that time, we'll introduce the spirit of america blogging tool. [11|14:08] <_sj_> that's where we go from show and tell to brainstorming. [11|14:08] <_sj_> first, delicious [11|14:08] <_sj_> who is using it? [11|14:09] <_sj_> it's getting used by a lot of alpha geeks right now [11|14:09] <_sj_> you can go onto delicious and see *my* bookmarks, [11|14:09] <_sj_> whc gets interesting. [11|14:09] <_sj_> you can see a whole category of bookmarks, [11|14:09] <_sj_> subcats [11|14:10] <_sj_> you can look into my bookmarks and see "states in africa" [11|14:10] <_sj_> (which is a lot of links :P) [11|14:10] <_sj_> if you look at these, for instance [scanning the site] [11|14:10] <_sj_> 15 people have pointed to this [11|14:10] <_sj_> so I can see who else has pointed to one of my bookmarks [11|14:10] <_sj_> and go and see theirs [11|14:10] <_sj_> so I can go and see rebeccas bookmarks [11|14:10] <_sj_> and go scour her bookmarks as well [11|14:10] * Joins: Rachel [11|14:10] <_sj_> I want to recommend this to anyne who blogs. [11|14:10] <_sj_> we've started a tag for global voices [11|14:10] <_sj_> so if you have a delicious account [11|14:11] <_sj_> and ta gsth as globalvoices, [11|14:11] <_sj_> anyone else who watches that tag will get those bookmarks. [11|14:11] <_sj_> so anyonw who feels like using delicious [11|14:11] <_sj_> gfeel free to grab that tag and sharing ideas and URLs with the rest of the room [11|14:11] <_sj_> q: does it work with rss and opml? [11|14:11] <_sj_> I don't use bookmarks any more... [11|14:11] <_sj_> q: I only use rss. can I use an opml file, [11|14:11] <_sj_> can it import opml files instead? [11|14:12] <_sj_> ethan: no [11|14:12] <_sj_> joey: if it doesn't exist, I'll write it for you [11|14:12] <_sj_> audience: clapping... [11|14:12] <_sj_> RMack: Korea! [11|14:12] <_sj_> otol: [11|14:13] <_sj_> tool: running a korea rss feed down the side. [11|14:13] <_sj_> using feedroll... [11|14:13] <_sj_> a really good way to get a community looking at the same collection of changing, updating links. [11|14:13] <_sj_> josh ain [11|14:13] <_sj_> tool: open source platform, FRASSLE [11|14:13] <_sj_> it does lots of things your normal blog platforms do, [11|14:13] <_sj_> but it also draws conncetoins between different blogs [11|14:13] <_sj_> bsaed on what you're categorizing and what you're linking to [11|14:13] <_sj_> (pause) [11|14:14] <_sj_> pulling in a lot of blogs, aggregating them, whenever someone links to a newspage or a certin item, [11|14:14] <_sj_> you post whatever you're posting (on your own site) onto that (aggregated) page [11|14:14] <_sj_> so if I write aout howard stern a hwole lot, [11|14:14] <_sj_> and jef jarvis does tol, [11|14:14] <_sj_> we'll start to see a correlationj that lots of what I write is also linedto by jeff, [11|14:14] <_sj_> so maybe stuff in his weblog, I may not even know he exists, [11|14:14] <_sj_> will be intereesting to me. [11|14:14] <_sj_> eadvanced categorhy system: [11|14:14] <_sj_> can rate / rank notjust blogs for relevance, [11|14:14] <_sj_> but individul categories within blogs. [11|14:14] <_sj_> (example) [11|14:15] <_sj_> so here posts relevant to what I usually post is showing up on my (aggregatred) blog, without my even knowing (those posters) existed. [11|14:15] <_sj_> let me add it's in high development right now, [11|14:15] <_sj_> so there's a lot going on in the system. [11|14:15] <_sj_> --- [11|14:15] <_sj_> next contestant: [11|14:15] <_sj_> john ? [11|14:16] <_sj_> with civilities.net [11|14:16] <_sj_> "constructing informative viewpoints" [11|14:16] <_sj_> learned abou blogs a year ago [11|14:16] <_sj_> gosh, these long 20-page blank screens! [11|14:16] <_sj_> what if I just do this: [11|14:16] <_sj_> (will be bsed on civicspce soon) [11|14:16] <_sj_> [ed: the future v. of deanspace?] [11|14:17] <_sj_> I was thikning, what can we do to imporve on blogging? [11|14:17] <_sj_> solve the metoo problem: [11|14:17] <_sj_> what are people saying about an article other than that its interesting? [11|14:17] <_sj_> hmm, loos like I have to sing in to actually see [11|14:17] <_sj_> [reading] "what is a civ structured community?" [11|14:18] <_sj_> it's not just 'everything's a blog ppost'. I want 'this is a review; a reference to another website' a question' an analysis; a definition" [11|14:18] <_sj_> [example] [11|14:18] <_sj_> [john garfinkle] [11|14:18] <_sj_> you can agree or disagree with what other people have to say [11|14:19] <_sj_> there's a list of topics one can suggest for categorizing what the comment is. [11|14:19] <_sj_> bad things, problems? [11|14:19] <_sj_> I think these are 90% of the things a norml reader of the new york times would worry about... [11|14:19] <_sj_> this is "a civ", you'll see it in a Drupal module coming for christmas [11|14:19] <_sj_> [ethan mildly remonstrates a time-breaker] [11|14:19] <_sj_> ethan: I know a number of people have talked ot me about wiki and wikipedia [11|14:20] <_sj_> I did a fairly extensive analysis of machine translation [11|14:20] <_sj_> (for business) [11|14:20] <_sj_> understand that this is really a small business [11|14:20] <_sj_> it will be about $100M in a few years [11|14:20] <_sj_> there's crash projects to take ar into en: [11|14:21] <_sj_> they're probably not spending a lot of time translating my:, big surprise [11|14:21] <_sj_> (because a lot of the work is going through the DOD). the total translation market is $10B [11|14:21] <_sj_> the reason is, MT sucks. [11|14:21] <_sj_> it's only useful for people who don't eed a lot of accuracy, like us. [11|14:21] <_sj_> 1) it's hard to get funded. [11|14:21] <_sj_> 2) there's a lot of new technology going into this right now. [11|14:21] <_sj_> many people have heard of systran [11|14:21] <_sj_> people are jumping from AI-based ling to corpus-based ling [11|14:22] <_sj_> yo have to spoon-feed it huge amounts of relevant text [11|14:22] <_sj_> in this case, parallel texts from the two languages involved, along with alignment clues. [11|14:22] <_sj_> however, tihs is expensive! [11|14:22] <_sj_> for instance, some of the original tets used Canadian Parliament laws [11|14:22] <_sj_> since they're by law kept in sync. [11|14:22] <_sj_> 3) who's the market? [11|14:22] <_sj_> oncreasing this is service bureaus [11|14:22] <_sj_> human translators being pulled together by some major corporations. [11|14:22] <_sj_> this is th $9.9B part of the market... [11|14:22] <_sj_> a friend of mine is CEO of one of the se companies. [11|14:23] <_sj_> their professional stock in trade is a corpus... [11|14:23] <_sj_> te have a huge stock of translations they've already done... [11|14:23] <_sj_> so when somebody calls them up , they can pull on existing work and with humn eyes produce the results. [11|14:23] <_sj_> the maintenance of these daabases of theirs [11|14:23] <_sj_> is probably worth as much as the whole MT market. [11|14:23] <_sj_> do you think they're going to give up their copuses to the Mt guy scan eat up their market? no[e. [11|14:23] <_sj_> so you all are in a position of helping create these parallel coprpisuses [11|14:23] <_sj_> that noody canget funded by anything but the defense agencies. [11|14:23] <_sj_> OS translation doesn't need to apply to the code... [11|14:24] <_sj_> its not like e-voting. [11|14:24] <_sj_> anyone can inspect what goes in and come out, to see if its bogusy. [11|14:24] <_sj_> --- [11|14:24] <_sj_> ethan: more on this at the end of the session? [11|14:24] <_sj_> joi on wp: (I'll correct him if he's wrong) [11|14:24] <_sj_> how does wikipedia dp thois npw? [11|14:24] <_sj_> joi: [11|14:25] <_sj_> I'm kind of an observer in the wpo community, [11|14:25] <_sj_> not a real participant. [11|14:25] <_sj_> I was just starting when they started to hit the 1mil article mark [11|14:25] <_sj_> so they were doing a press release [11|14:25] <_sj_> so a draft press release went up [11|14:25] <_sj_> everyone started editing it [11|14:25] <_sj_> a version was locked in... [11|14:25] <_sj_> then there are IRC channels, one for each lang [11|14:25] <_sj_> then people decided they would go out in each lang ad submit translaoins... [11|14:25] <_sj_> people started dumping their press contats onto a contacts page... [11|14:25] <_sj_> so then at GMT 00:00 eveyrone sent press releases to all their press contacts [11|14:26] <_sj_> in many languges all at once. [11|14:26] <_sj_> of oures they aren't all human languges, [11|14:26] <_sj_> there is Klingon and Latin... [11|14:26] <_sj_> what I want to konw is, [11|14:26] <_sj_> how do they manage 100 langs? [11|14:26] <_sj_> if you go onto ic chanels, [11|14:26] <_sj_> each ofthe communities and countries are represented... [11|14:26] <_sj_> there are efinitely bridge people [11|14:26] <_sj_> they're somewhat like bloggers... [11|14:26] <_sj_> bookworms for hte common good [11|14:26] <_sj_> bloggers are muc more egotistical [11|14:26] <_sj_> and a lot of the bridge people are women [11|14:26] <_sj_> not as common in the blogosphere. [11|14:26] <_sj_> most of the people woh ene dup making a lot of noise seem to be men. [11|14:27] <_sj_> what I want ot know is why is it more successful at bidging the international stuff... [11|14:27] <_sj_> sj, maybe you can exmpplain some of this stufff... [11|14:27] language geeks started working on internationalization several years ago... [11|14:27] sj's talking about Wikipedia's languages [11|14:28] there are bilingual and trilingual people [11|14:28] bridging between languages [11|14:28] 200 weak bridges [11|14:28] who leave notes about what they did [11|14:28] then someone else comes along [11|14:28] to help with what wasn't done or what wasn't done well [11|14:28] it's not very reliable sometimes, but [11|14:28] people who help make it better [11|14:29] someone who can spend five minutes looking at it can make big improvements [11|14:29] <_sj_> new tool... [11|14:29] <_sj_> identity commons.net [11|14:29] <_sj_> this can be used for people as a persitent identity [11|14:29] <_sj_> cross-platform [11|14:29] <_sj_> as well as a persitnt identithy... [11|14:29] <_sj_> maybe having sub-permalinks attached to that. [11|14:30] <_sj_> you start to use the XRI framework [11|14:30] <_sj_> if you go to XRI.org, [11|14:30] <_sj_> it's basically trying to build another layer trying to build an IRP and DNS system, like the DNS name [11|14:30] <_sj_> you'd have an inumber and an iname, [11|14:30] <_sj_> and yo'd have persitent, abstaracted identifiers. [11|14:30] <_sj_> that's srot of a picture of what we're trying to do. [11|14:30] <_sj_> our first service, we have the first identity broker. [11|14:30] <_sj_> the idea is you'd have a persistent identifier for you, your iname [11|14:30] <_sj_> ... [11|14:30] <_sj_> (site not up yet) [11|14:31] <_sj_> these are open standards, open uses... they're started to tag all of their works with metadata that sort of appends the author, attaches licensing terms... [11|14:31] <_sj_> if you go to 2idi.com [11|14:31] <_sj_> that's the first identity brokern [11|14:31] <_sj_> and the code for that is being released by the end of the month [11|14:31] <_sj_> so you could start an identity broker [11|14:31] <_sj_> and if you just click on this, [11|14:31] <_sj_> you can see the contact gateway, as the first service that we want. [11|14:32] <_sj_> it's a way to give opeople an address to get in touch with you [11|14:32] <_sj_> without giving away your email address... [11|14:32] <_sj_> since that's thedef acto persistent identifier, which isn't erally working. [11|14:32] <_sj_> ---- [11|14:32] <_sj_> one more slot... [11|14:32] <_sj_> I'm ?? from prx.org [11|14:32] <_sj_> national radio exchange [11|14:32] <_sj_> the idea is that we do distribution perer review [11|14:32] <_sj_> and licensing piece [11|14:32] <_sj_> we come from the public radio worls [11|14:32] <_sj_> d [11|14:32] <_sj_> so there are quite a few people out there [11|14:32] <_sj_> who are interested in doing audio content [11|14:33] <_sj_> but they don't really find their way on the radio. [11|14:33] <_sj_> that's really been our focus... [11|14:33] <_sj_> any kind of radio producer can come here, sign up for a free trial, [11|14:33] <_sj_> and post their stuff. [11|14:33] <_sj_> they post it in broadcast quality audio, [11|14:33] <_sj_> which are pretty big audio files compared to some of the stuff out there. [11|14:33] <_sj_> here's pershan foll... anyone can come here, post pieces, and write reviews [11|14:33] <_sj_> we encourage people to get feedback that way. [11|14:33] * Joins: PPaladin2 [11|14:35] <_sj_> this is the space right now with toolmakers. [11|14:35] <_sj_> some of the people right now are actively building tools in this space [11|14:35] <_sj_> before we get into that discussion sabout what we need and how we go about building them, [11|14:35] <_sj_> we'll look at the arab blogging tool... [11|14:35] <_sj_> the last time we talked about this, [11|14:36] <_sj_> there was a great deal of enthusiasm about this... the possibility of getting people to blog entirely in arabic [11|14:36] <_sj_> we set out to come up with an arabic blogging tool [11|14:36] <_sj_> (janice abrahams and david carter, from spirit of america and myUpload) [11|14:36] <_sj_> this is T+1 after uploading the beta version... it may break :@ [11|14:36] <_sj_> ... [11|14:37] <_sj_> and voila! [11|14:37] <_sj_> a few bumps along the way [11|14:37] <_sj_> it actually went prettu smoothly. [11|14:37] * Joins: seth_ [11|14:38] <_sj_> this is a great project for us, since ultimately ew have a whole lot of iraqui bloggers, [11|14:38] <_sj_> we can aggregate it into a community site. [11|14:38] <_sj_> this has our skin on the top [11|14:38] <_sj_> (in english! :-( ---Ed ) [11|14:38] <_sj_> obviously this is the admin interface. [11|14:38] <_sj_> I'll show you the english version. [11|14:38] <_sj_> the posts are still in their native language. [11|14:38] <_sj_> we can go thorugh and edit those posts... [11|14:38] <_sj_> so all the tabs and help and such are in english. [11|14:38] <_sj_> the arabic interface... is the same. [11|14:39] <_sj_> from or perspective, there was no new technology. [11|14:39] <_sj_> it was just translating the language file, uploading the application. [11|14:39] * Parts: seth_ [11|14:39] <_sj_> when you actually publish your blog [11|14:39] <_sj_> this is running on Win2000... using a proprietary blogging tool. [11|14:39] <_sj_> here's what it looks like in the end... [11|14:39] <_sj_> [skinnable] [11|14:39] <_sj_> [attachments supported] [11|14:40] <_sj_> it's as simple as translating a few things... [11|14:40] <_sj_> klingon is our next target language, based on the response we got [11|14:40] <_sj_> . [11|14:40] <_sj_> jeff jarvis : [11|14:40] <_sj_> this has been a personal passio nof mine [11|14:40] <_sj_> as I saw these iraqi bloggters here... [11|14:41] <_sj_> we've blogged about it (arabic blogging tool) [11|14:41] <_sj_> you canhelp with that... rally want to salute jim, kerry, mohammad and omar and everyone else who contributed. [11|14:41] <_sj_> now if someone fcomes along to do wordpress in swahili, great! [11|14:41] <_sj_> ew just need ot make it *happen*. [11|14:41] <_sj_> spirit of america changed that, and this is really about changing the world. [11|14:41] <_sj_> -- [11|14:41] <_sj_> ethan: how do we get from the existence of this platform to the transformative effect we've seen in places like iran? [11|14:41] <_sj_> a: [11|14:41] <_sj_> omar : [11|14:42] <_sj_> people are hungrey to speak out [11|14:42] <_sj_> (in iraq) [11|14:42] <_sj_> they are just wainting for a way that lets them express their idea [11|14:42] <_sj_> s [11|14:42] <_sj_> we're going to find out hundred and thousands of blogs expressing their thoughts, in arabic, [11|14:42] <_sj_> from inside the iraqi world [11|14:42] <_sj_> I just help a little bit with the translation... [11|14:42] <_sj_> but really I am just happy. so happy. [11|14:42] <_sj_> -- [11|14:43] <_sj_> ethan : if anything comes out of this, someone stepped up and asked to make this happen. [11|14:43] <_sj_> someone's gotta be the catalyst now. [11|14:43] <_sj_> we can't complain that it's not done. [11|14:43] <_sj_> we've seen the need [11|14:43] <_sj_> there are a dozen needs like this in the room [11|14:43] <_sj_> pull partners yo've met today, and just get it done! [11|14:43] <_sj_> --- [11|14:43] <_sj_> just a few more wordds on the strategy -- [11|14:43] <_sj_> omar was a little modest, on what they're doing in iraq [11|14:43] <_sj_> I'm not sure how much they talked about friends of democracy... [11|14:44] <_sj_> friends of democracy is an iraqi NGO based in baghdad, [11|14:44] <_sj_> working to both help create, support, and inform other pro-democracy groups and individuals in irraq. [11|14:44] <_sj_> one of the other templatees here... friends of democracy branding [11|14:44] <_sj_> the blogs that will be made initially available [11|14:44] <_sj_> will be hosted for free [11|14:44] <_sj_> which will be as important as making it available in arabic in the firs place. [11|14:44] <_sj_> in this case they'll be blogging ostensibly aboue elkections and =democrcy in eiraq, [11|14:44] <_sj_> mostly for groups these guys are working with. [11|14:44] <_sj_> the rollou thtere is for them to tmake others other intdividuals in iraq [11|14:45] <_sj_> aware of it, help them get online, do a little training if necessary; [11|14:45] <_sj_> there will be some other things that thye do, to make folks aware of this in ira.. [11|14:45] <_sj_> one of the things wer're doing withspirit for america is providing some fudnding fo [11|14:45] <_sj_> the ministry of women's afairs... [11|14:45] <_sj_> (they have an annual budget, currently, of $12,000 [11|14:45] <_sj_> ) [11|14:45] <_sj_> we're ging to encourage iraqi women to vote in the upcoming election. [11|14:45] <_sj_> those programs will promote democracy in the ened. [11|14:45] <_sj_> lots of little things that will add up, hopefully to add awareness. [11|14:46] <_sj_> anyone who says they are for a democracy has a blog. [11|14:46] <_sj_> (also, because you're gonna have a left rail for pro-democracy information...) [11|14:46] <_sj_> RMack: I wonder if I can ask a slightly devil's advo question: [11|14:46] <_sj_> who decides who gets to writea bout democracy, hwo gets the free hosting? [11|14:46] <_sj_> how does one disqualify for being a freidnd of democracy? [11|14:46] <_sj_> if one is trying to be pro-demo and anti-american at the same time, [11|14:46] <_sj_> how do you deal with all these political issues? [11|14:47] <_sj_> answer: anyone who says they are, [11|14:47] <_sj_> gets a blog. [11|14:47] <_sj_> the screen that omar will have... each page will hae a link, where if people rae using this to actively incite fviolence, [11|14:47] <_sj_> their blogs will be shut down. [11|14:47] <_sj_> if they became invovled with a terrorist org, telling people to go out and attack gov and civ personnel... [11|14:47] <_sj_> a low threshhold. [11|14:47] <_sj_> omar and the others have some thoughts about other criteria they might want to use; racist lang, that sort of thing. [11|14:48] <_sj_> friends of democracy will decide (about inciting violence) [11|14:48] <_sj_> if it becomes clear it has changed from anything related to democracy to a free-for-all site [11|14:48] <_sj_> q: I take it you're not planning to open-souce the code for the tool? [11|14:48] <_sj_> david: most of the businesses we're in, the blgos are sponsored, monitored by someone... [11|14:48] <_sj_> q: so there's no arabic wordpress, then? [11|14:49] <_sj_> answer: there's a lot of almost readytogo tools [11|14:49] <_sj_> that I found when I surveyed the market. [11|14:49] <_sj_> so I did it an easy way... for me. [11|14:49] <_sj_> david: if you're doing open source, don't see this and go "darn, someone already did it!" [11|14:49] <_sj_> go ahead and do it. [11|14:49] <_sj_> [not a completely open source tool...] [11|14:49] <_sj_> (they had 4 weeks to get tihs tool finished? or nine months? --a confused Ed) [11|14:50] <_sj_> . [11|14:50] <_sj_> a: freedom of expression is great. anyone who wants to register and have a blog can have one. [11|14:50] <_sj_> I flly expect any policy you can imagine will be criticized. [11|14:50] <_sj_> ethan: I really don't want to get on the case of whther iUpload is open or not. [11|14:50] <_sj_> one more question from jim, then we move on [11|14:50] <_sj_> . [11|14:50] <_sj_> jim moore: [11|14:50] <_sj_> is there a way for google to search this? [11|14:51] <_sj_> and will there be any easy-to-use machine translation? [11|14:51] <_sj_> you're going to create a pool of some really interesting content in arabic... will there be ways to earch it in langs other than english? [11|14:51] <_sj_> a: google does search arabic directly... [11|14:51] <_sj_> (applause) [11|14:51] <_sj_> ethan: I want to et into more of a discussion dynamic. [11|14:52] <_sj_> we've been talking lall morning about diff things we want to do [11|14:52] <_sj_> diff ways we want people tobe able to ineract... [11|14:52] <_sj_> diff questions people should ansewr [11|14:52] <_sj_> I'n interestd in brainstrming over the next half hour or so [11|14:52] <_sj_> about tools we'dlike to see ready to happen [11|14:52] <_sj_> we've seen that there's a real pool of people willing to make tools when there's a clear dmeand for these tools [11|14:53] <_sj_> so perhaps we can have someone transcribe these brainstorming ideas on the wiki [11|14:53] <_sj_> hoder, do you want to do this? [11|14:53] <_sj_> is there anyone who'se sufficiently familiar with the wiki [11|14:53] <_sj_> to help update the brainstorming on the wiki? [11|14:53] <_sj_> (hoder.com/wiki) [11|14:53] <_sj_> . [11|14:53] <_sj_> michael: categories! [11|14:53] <_sj_> just a user, but I want to be able to assign multiple cats [11|14:53] <_sj_> have subcats [11|14:53] <_sj_> assign cats on the fly [11|14:54] <_sj_> hopefully accessible from a pulldown menu [11|14:54] <_sj_> so I don' thave to interrupt my normal work [11|14:54] <_sj_> . [11|14:54] <_sj_> joi: just a disclaimer; Im an investor in mt [11|14:54] <_sj_> it has cats and subcats, and is free for nonprofits... [11|14:54] <_sj_> but if you look at flickr or decios, or any sites where you can asign tags [11|14:54] <_sj_> there's an emergent order [11|14:54] <_sj_> you can go see top tags. [11|14:54] <_sj_> see which is popular [11|14:55] <_sj_> now david weinberger ttalked abou thow anytihng misc is considered knowledge [11|14:55] <_sj_> so we ended up with DDS [11|14:55] <_sj_> now we have a citizen's ontology... [11|14:55] <_sj_> it iwll be really interesting to see the emergent system of tags [11|14:55] <_sj_> instead of a topdown preassigned cat system... [11|14:55] <_sj_> it would be nice to see what grows [11|14:55] <_sj_> and then we could assign communities around different category systems... [11|14:55] <_sj_> think about how we canuse those tags to help tools like google [11|14:55] <_sj_> . [11|14:56] <_sj_> ethan: I don't just want the hardcord toolbuildres [11|14:56] <_sj_> but also the people inovolvec in creating communities [11|14:56] <_sj_> and building communities... [11|14:56] <_sj_> . [11|14:56] <_sj_> q: I used to work at microsoft... [11|14:56] <_sj_> we hade a hard time agreeing on cats [11|14:56] <_sj_> what I found at the end was less of a blogging 'tool' problem [11|14:56] <_sj_> but more of a taxonomy problem, a problem with translation [11|14:56] <_sj_> we need a different set of skills to tackle this [11|14:56] <_sj_> getting cats to converge across the web... it's reat [11|14:56] <_sj_> unless they're just all about the same thing [11|14:56] <_sj_> and then translating them... [11|14:57] <_sj_> is the next step. [11|14:57] <_sj_> also, more like what's in flickr, etc [11|14:57] <_sj_> . [11|14:57] * Quits: PPaladin2 (Connection timed out [11|14:57] <_sj_> more on security issues (from jeff jarvis) [11|14:57] <_sj_> making sure thing are avail from the outside [11|14:57] <_sj_> creating a domain name stucture so it can't be blocked [11|14:57] <_sj_> by 'bad guys' [11|14:57] <_sj_> the ability to have an rss feed including text, photos, audio, video, in a bittorrenty world where it ha no home, [11|14:57] <_sj_> can't be blocked or captured... [11|14:57] <_sj_> hoder's talked aobu trss feeding email, since it isn't blocked as much. [11|14:57] <_sj_> a whole host of how to get around tyrants... [11|14:58] sj's speaking again [11|14:58] he wants to see a tool with autmatic translation [11|14:58] something where a user can press a button to see a different language [11|14:59] even if it's just in 12 major languages [11|14:59] mentioned systrans [11|14:59] <_sj_> thanks jk :) [11|14:59] comment about multilingual help [11|14:59] <_sj_> --- [11|14:59] = ) [11|14:59] <_sj_> centrl repository [11|14:59] <_sj_> where people can register that they're multilingual... [11|14:59] <_sj_> and available for translatoin. [11|14:59] <_sj_> -- [11|14:59] <_sj_> indexes of people who want to get involved and translate. [11|14:59] <_sj_> . [11|15:00] <_sj_> hoder : [11|15:00] <_sj_> one of the great things about rss is that you can feed it to emial, avoiding ceensors [11|15:00] <_sj_> another great thign is, if any sort of app could use rss in sort of a p2p way, that would be almazing. [11|15:00] <_sj_> the only thing that remains is the security... how it can make sure that these are the original rss that someone has used. [11|15:00] <_sj_> if ew caould have that p2p rss reader, [11|15:00] <_sj_> nobody could control anything [11|15:00] * Joins: jarretthousenort [11|15:00] <_sj_> i mean, censor things [11|15:00] <_sj_> . [11|15:00] <_sj_> the other thing I want to suggest isn't exactly a tool, [11|15:01] <_sj_> but we've seen awarsd, and contests for bloggers... but they've always been forbloggers, not posts [11|15:01] <_sj_> there should be some kind of award for psosts in different categories, [11|15:01] <_sj_> it would be very very effective. [11|15:01] <_sj_> . [11|15:01] <_sj_> joi : plug for creative commons now [11|15:01] <_sj_> don't forget to put your CC license on a lot of deriv works on your site. [11|15:01] <_sj_> a lot of people who want to use/translate your stuff... [11|15:01] <_sj_> when people ask permission, make sure you tell them "don't ask permission; permission has already been granted" [11|15:01] <_sj_> it's amazing how mnay people will translate things verbatim, and will trackback, and you'll find them. [11|15:02] <_sj_> . [11|15:02] <_sj_> if it ewre possible to make a selction of posts, not blogs [11|15:02] <_sj_> but posts... I want to watch turkinsh, irani, and arabic blogs... get the best posts [11|15:02] <_sj_> and have them sent ot me. [11|15:02] <_sj_> something like that would ve fantastic to have. [11|15:02] <_sj_> (RMack : sounds like delicious is getting there... ) [11|15:02] <_sj_> . [11|15:03] <_sj_> hodre: delicious for blogs, that would be amazing. [11|15:03] <_sj_> imagine a delicions only for blogs... [11|15:03] <_sj_> (original q: jerzy) [11|15:03] <_sj_> q : I was ust browsing on my laptop... [11|15:04] sj's answering [11|15:04] it's not intended to be a translation [11|15:04] it's supposed to be different information presented in different languages [11|15:04] <_sj_> it seemed that some of the entries had different content in differnt languages... [11|15:04] policy documents should be translated properly [11|15:04] <_sj_> (sj - yes, that's how it's intended) [11|15:05] <_sj_> . [11|15:05] <_sj_> isaac - anyone can be a blogger, so you can write it down... [11|15:05] <_sj_> it would be great to have a tool so you can write anytime, anywhere, and the tool would let you choose where to publish [11|15:05] <_sj_> or you could publish in multiple places at once. [11|15:05] <_sj_> another thing [11|15:05] <_sj_> . [11|15:05] <_sj_> you integrate social networking with blogging tolol [11|15:05] <_sj_> so you choose people yo utrust [11|15:05] <_sj_> so one of the groups of people is your research team [11|15:05] <_sj_> and their blogs become public to other people. [11|15:06] <_sj_> (perhaps just the others in their team) [11|15:06] <_sj_> ethan: another idea has been having blog servers in different countries... [11|15:06] <_sj_> if you hae particularly sensitive material, you could potentially do that with a different tool. [11|15:06] * Joins: jwales [11|15:06] <_sj_> jeff: [11|15:06] <_sj_> another tool [11|15:07] <_sj_> ways to enhance donations [11|15:07] <_sj_> ways that charities and others can increase access [11|15:07] <_sj_> how do ew add money to this equation? [11|15:07] <_sj_> ethan: whether that be sending a tip jar to someone for a digital camera, or for access [11|15:07] <_sj_> obv paypal works fairly well, but only if you can link it to a cc or bank account... [11|15:07] <_sj_> in a lot of the workd, this is a huge unsolved problem [11|15:07] <_sj_> and one we're eager to go after [11|15:07] <_sj_> . [11|15:07] <_sj_> q : one of the importat parts of cats I've worked on [11|15:07] <_sj_> is not just content specific ccas [11|15:07] <_sj_> but what kind of content [11|15:07] <_sj_> questions, proposal... [11|15:07] <_sj_> I could eread a lot more feeds if they were just one-line quesions [11|15:08] <_sj_> I would prefer that to a mailing list [11|15:08] <_sj_> woul dlove to see more categorization-type posts... [11|15:08] <_sj_> . [11|15:08] <_sj_> q: money [11|15:08] <_sj_> very american [11|15:08] <_sj_> robert desia [11|15:08] <_sj_> has done a lot of wireless in iraq [11|15:08] <_sj_> his suggestion is that you ive people phone cards [11|15:08] <_sj_> if you have their id, you can reload their phone card... [11|15:08] <_sj_> now all you need is a dispersing agent who knows how to unload and add cash instead... [11|15:08] <_sj_> if we could solve that dispersing agent problem, we'd be on our way [11|15:09] <_sj_> [ed: why phone? cards] [11|15:09] <_sj_> .ethan: if we wanted to roll this out more globally [11|15:09] * Joins: joshFrassle [11|15:09] <_sj_> I really want to be able to tip my ghana bloggers [11|15:09] <_sj_> how do I do this? [11|15:09] <_sj_> a: the phone is an environment to work with.. [11|15:09] <_sj_> phone cos tpically suck at most innovative things [11|15:09] <_sj_> but they're very useful. [11|15:09] <_sj_> look at a lot of things happening in russia [11|15:09] <_sj_> one of the big things is happening to mobile phone cos [11|15:09] <_sj_> it's sth not understood very well; [11|15:09] <_sj_> a lot is happening. it's a metered environment... lowtech compared to SMS [11|15:09] <_sj_> spent a few yeras in the phone market [11|15:10] <_sj_> in the case of these cards, there's a huge underground economy [11|15:10] <_sj_> there are companies that operate in iraq as well who could help with [11|15:10] <_sj_> an answer... that is, to give someone $10 you could essentiall yigve them a phone card [11|15:10] <_sj_> that they could trade. [11|15:10] <_sj_> you can do that right now in iraq... [11|15:10] <_sj_> three's lots of things like that about how the phone system can be utilized like that. [11|15:10] <_sj_> . [11|15:10] <_sj_> follow-on about money: [11|15:10] <_sj_> money is good, we all want to see that going to the right places [11|15:11] <_sj_> that's not the only resource folks in this room have at their disposal, though. [11|15:11] <_sj_> A big resource is attention: [11|15:11] <_sj_> think of ways to channel attention to people who might otherwise not et it. [11|15:11] <_sj_> aas much as we talk about meritocracy in irawq, [11|15:11] <_sj_> (sorry, in the blogospherE) [11|15:11] <_sj_> a lot of it is, who you've had a beer with. [11|15:11] <_sj_> transcending boundaries, bridging ... in ways we were tlaking about this morning [11|15:11] <_sj_> institutionalizing ways to get people who can currently project att'n and those who deserve it [11|15:11] <_sj_> ethan: get concrete for a minute [11|15:11] <_sj_> give me a proposal [11|15:12] <_sj_> alex: you and I talked a monthor two ago about hwy couldn't you match exiting bloggers who have som einfluence to really hot emerging bloggers in the developing world, say. [11|15:12] <_sj_> and create a partnership thing where they're learning about one another. [11|15:12] <_sj_> in a similar way there are many blogs out there that tke specific areas of concern on a global basis; providing those with the impetus to cover more info coming out of dev world blogs is good [11|15:13] <_sj_> there are orgs out there who are set up to bridge the gaps b/t what we in the developed world are hearing and what those in the dev'ing world are saying [11|15:13] <_sj_> . [11|15:13] <_sj_> jeff jarvis : a news service! [11|15:13] <_sj_> hoder mentioned before elections and persian bloggers [11|15:13] <_sj_> now we mentioned iraq... [11|15:13] <_sj_> we want to give it legitimacy, and show people what's what [11|15:13] <_sj_> from the consumer's viewpoint [11|15:13] <_sj_> we iee it legitimacy, [11|15:13] <_sj_> distribute it and get it out there, [11|15:13] <_sj_> and that's the feedback loop which is the same as a serious blogger goin back -- [11|15:14] <_sj_> another thing we mentioned earlire is 'adopting' blogs... [11|15:14] <_sj_> think of something which may be an odd thing for people who visit your blog, [11|15:14] <_sj_> but brides get built, and you introduce them to new readers [11|15:14] <_sj_> . [11|15:14] <_sj_> david: [11|15:14] <_sj_> hoder made an interesting point about blocking mail [11|15:14] <_sj_> they can't block gmail, for instance, it's too pervasiv [11|15:14] <_sj_> maybe our blogs should be less about controversial topics, [11|15:14] <_sj_> and just about getting people on everyday simple topics [11|15:15] <_sj_> then blogs would be so pervasive, [11|15:15] <_sj_> they couldn't shut it down [11|15:15] <_sj_> get teachers to blog what's going on in the rlcasses, munciiplaities to blog about how they're spending... [11|15:15] <_sj_> cotroversial messages would then get so buried, you couldn't block all blogs without [eithre blocking millions or] reading them all [11|15:15] <_sj_> . [11|15:15] <_sj_> prx people? audio tools? [11|15:15] <_sj_> prs: one is, re: enclosures, [11|15:16] <_sj_> I think podcasting is a bit of a misnomer [11|15:16] <_sj_> it works over rss like everything else [11|15:16] <_sj_> I think that's a great tool and that's going to go in other directions [11|15:16] <_sj_> free open source tools like audacity... [11|15:16] <_sj_> we need to be able to point people towards how to do production well [11|15:16] <_sj_> I think audacity is pretty well int'lized... [11|15:16] <_sj_> but they may need more translations. [11|15:16] <_sj_> ethan: aud is a pretty powerful editor [11|15:16] <_sj_> getting to a MT versoin of audacity, is that a possibility? [11|15:17] <_sj_> prx: yes, a simple audacity would be great. [11|15:17] <_sj_> . [11|15:17] <_sj_> dan gillmor: count on moore's law to make the hardware cheap... and we coul duse some actual low0-cost turnkey tools [11|15:17] <_sj_> that are just appliances [11|15:17] <_sj_> sth that does soup-to-nuts work for you [11|15:17] <_sj_> a device for one purpose and not much else [11|15:17] <_sj_> instead of general purpose computers [11|15:18] <_sj_> there are lots of manufacturers in the developing world who could produce things like this. [11|15:18] <_sj_> ethan: you could now get to the point where jim moore's camera is posting directly ot a blog... [11|15:18] <_sj_> you could then get a DV recorder that does an interview and posts that to the internet immediately... [11|15:18] <_sj_> we know we could hack this up now, but it owuld only be uable to a dozen people... [11|15:18] <_sj_> . [11|15:18] <_sj_> joi: can I just interject one short nonlinear thought here for people to think about during th break? [11|15:19] <_sj_> getting the most popular-versoin post, or the elections, or event-based issues is interesting... [11|15:19] <_sj_> sustained things like what jeff is doing is also interesting... [11|15:19] <_sj_> having beers is also important... [11|15:19] <_sj_> it's very difficult to direct attention. [11|15:19] <_sj_> it's not easy to organize [11|15:19] * Quits: joshFrassle (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) [11|15:19] <_sj_> and I want to key that as sth to think about [11|15:19] <_sj_> what is it that we're asking for? [11|15:19] <_sj_> always having the top 5 blog posts in iran come out once a month isn't what we're asking. [11|15:19] <_sj_> . [11|15:20] <_sj_> ethan: you're raising a good issue, which is how will we atually get people to pay attention to (what we decide in a manifesto is important) [11|15:20] <_sj_> . [11|15:20] <_sj_> jim moore: when you come up from the bottom with these tools [11|15:20] <_sj_> and you try to figure out what to do with them [11|15:20] <_sj_> and we're trying to create social movements, create democracy, [11|15:20] <_sj_> these are the ihgher goals [11|15:20] <_sj_> so if you could get attentionto move any way you want to, [11|15:21] <_sj_> what is the system, the cycle, the nature of attention? [11|15:21] <_sj_> what feeds it into action? [11|15:21] <_sj_> . [11|15:21] <_sj_> this is slightly off-tangent, on a different sort of talk [11|15:21] <_sj_> I hear a lot of requests for tools and tech, finding topics similar to mine, [romoting veiwpoints siilar to mine, just about reaching out to thers who think like me. [11|15:21] <_sj_> I think it's important that there be mecahnisms and methods that go beyond that [11|15:21] <_sj_> 'now for sth completely different!' [11|15:21] <_sj_> [the antithesis of matching] [11|15:21] <_sj_> therre should be ways for us to reach out [11|15:22] <_sj_> [q: random or opposite?] [11|15:22] <_sj_> hoder: some sort of amzn rec for logs, not just ones that are close to what you normally read, would be neat [11|15:22] <_sj_> ethan: something like disagreement.com might be a great way to go. [11|15:22] <_sj_> (bloglines has sth like that) [11|15:22] <_sj_> (sort of) [11|15:23] <_sj_> . [11|15:23] <_sj_> one of the things about the blogosphere is lots of people get together to slove problems [11|15:23] <_sj_> one cool thing to integrate into blogging woudl be a proj manager, [11|15:23] <_sj_> a doc manager [11|15:23] <_sj_> a bunch of teachers getting together to do lesson plans in different scohol districts... [11|15:23] <_sj_> then they could try to push it out there. [11|15:24] <_sj_> agreeing: is blog the right solution; is a wiki a better collaboration tool? [11|15:24] <_sj_> isaac: there's already a tool like this... projectPath? [11|15:24] <_sj_> . [11|15:24] <_sj_> getting out of blogland and into organizing people around causees: [11|15:25] <_sj_> that's very different territory. [11|15:25] <_sj_> ti's hard. [11|15:25] <_sj_> not many people are really working directly on that... [11|15:25] <_sj_> . [11|15:25] <_sj_> britt: [11|15:25] <_sj_> the spirit of america site, working on this summer... [11|15:25] <_sj_> we were working on it a while ago [11|15:25] <_sj_> we created a new blog object [11|15:25] <_sj_> any time you make a new page, you get another blog... with comment features. [11|15:25] <_sj_> if any topic is interesting enoug to spin off, like a new wiki page... [11|15:26] sj's speaking again [11|15:26] ability of writing whatever you write with one tool then decide where to post it [11|15:26] it'd be great if there was a tool like that for identity [11|15:26] people change blogs [11|15:26] people have multiple blogs [11|15:26] it'd be nice to write it and not worry about it [11|15:26] and just have one page for everything [11|15:27] identifying you [11|15:27] promoting worthy causes on blogs [11|15:27] <_sj_> adfeeds: [11|15:27] collaborative add feed asks someone else [11|15:27] <_sj_> here's who these people think are worthy; you should too. [11|15:27] <_sj_> friendly adwords? [11|15:28] <_sj_> ethan: blogroll? [11|15:28] <_sj_> no, say jeff says five things that I should pay attention to [11|15:28] <_sj_> and I want to give those things space... [11|15:29] <_sj_> [sj footnotes, to add to wiki, transcript, & over dinner : [11|15:30] <_sj_> 1) translation - 400+ self-identified wp translators, in var langs; similar groups for other big open source groups [11|15:30] <_sj_> 2) unified identity - across wikis, blogs, friend-networks ...] [11|15:33] <_sj_> ethan: there's a lot to talk about later and over dinner!